As a Grindr podcast host, Katya travels across gay etiquette

Out: Your web series with Grindr — Who's the A**hole? — has been a huge success. What was it like when you first got approached to do this project?

Katya: I honestly don't even remember [laughs]. But after the first interview I did, I was like, "Oh my god, I love this." I don't know. I really like talking to people. I like being Barbara Walters… although Barbara Walters is a hack and a hag. I'm not sure if she's still alive, but that woman is not it. Maybe I like being Diane Sawyer.

I believe Barbara Walters passed in 2022. But time is a construct, tear it apart, etc.

But I was flattered, actually, to be invited to do it out of drag. It is a lot easier. So it's nice to be... I don't know, I like being Diane Sawyer. It's really fun.

A few years ago, you'd often talk about how odd it felt to have guests on UNHhhh. You felt like you didn't know how to navigate that back and forth. But you've now become a pro at interviewing people. What was that journey like?

Well, thank you. I think the key is to listen, and then to respond after the person has stopped talking. [laughs] That's one crucial key to having a really smooth interview. But it's a lot easier said than done, sometimes, when you have big personalities.

I'm sure you've been in a situation where you're talking to someone, and you can see behind their eyes that they're just waiting for you to stop so that they can say what they have on their mind. They're not really present. I like being forced to be very, very present, and in the moment, with people. It's really great, just in general, really.

RuPaul has always said the same thing about interviews: He enjoys talking to people who are actually listening and responding to what the conversation is, not just going with what they had planned in advance. Famously, you were on two episodes of What's the Tee and had a great rapport with RuPaul. You both come from that same school of thought for interviews. You listened, and he loved it.

I loved those interviews. First of all, I mean, it was such a treat to be in the same room as RuPaul anytime, because she's such a larger than life — literally — figure. But she loves unpredictability. I think that a person like her, who's been in the media for so long, gets really bored. So it's like, "Ru, what are the 10 steps on how to be fierce? How do you really werk it?" And it's like, "Ugh." She loves to laugh and she loves to talk about anything. Those were some of the best hours of my life. It was great.

Yeah, and being present with each other is more important now than ever. Speaking of which, before we move on, I can't keep pretending that I don't see the giant poster of Margaret Qualley looking stunning, which you're standing right next to.

[sings] Don't you know, pump it up!

Your stan card for The Substance has been renewed. Do you have any dream guests, or favorite interviews — past, present, or future — from the Who's the A**hole series?

Well, dream guest would have to be Demi Moore, obviously! I would settle for Margaret Qualley, of course [laughs]. Even Dennis Quaid, maybe. And especially Coralie Fargeat! I would love to interview her and practice my French.

From this season, [my favorite] episode was with Lisa Rinna. I was so terrified to do that interview because she's a real Hollywood star with a larger than life personality. I walked in there and I was like, "Oh." But as soon as she started talking about chopping heads off with chainsaws, I was like, "Oh, that is the diva!" She is so fucking funny. She is so fabulous. I'll never forget that day, it was so wonderful.

Everyone always feels comfortable with you, and at ease, which makes a big difference. Some people take that for granted, but it's really not easy. It can be tricky, and tough, to make famous people feel comfortable in an interview.

Yeah, I don't know why that is. Maybe because I come from a place of not having any boundaries, or shame, or… [laughs] You know what I mean? But also, I think it's very, very important to be polite and treat people with respect. I don't like the… Not to harp on Barbara Walters, but the kind of "gotcha" journalism. It's like, "So, you have a drug problem. Let's talk about that." You know what I mean? It's so insane. But I don't know why people feel comfortable with me. I'm just happy that they do.

Totally. I told the Grindr team when setting up this interview, "Honestly, whenever I talk with Katya, we kind of just go off and have fun. I can send you some questions, but we might not get to any of them." [laughs] But it's always a great conversation, and I love to see you being such a pro at doing interviews. This Grindr series is doing so well. I love it.

Yeah, we've done three seasons! It's been a lot. We started with Orville Peck. I think the last episodes for this season are Joel Kim Booster, Jordy, and Megan Stalter. Oh, that is going to be so funny!

It's interesting because Trixie and I had Meg on our podcast [The Bald and the Beautiful], and it was a total flop [laughs]. I'm a super fan of Meg. I've watched every episode of Hacks three times — every episode, three times. I am very aware of her. I've seen her live. I'm obsessed. And Trixie wasn't that familiar, so the vibe just wasn't coalescing.

But when she came on this podcast, the crew was just pissing themselves! You know when the camera people are trying to hold back their laughter?! That was so fun. It was so funny. I don't even know if I got a word out because I was just laughing like an idiot the whole time. She was hysterical. Hysterical. Meg came up and she's like, "I'm a bitch and I don't care who knows it. Ooh." [laughs] It's so dumb. She's so wild.

People send in their questions, and you try to answer them with your guests every episode. Sometimes, though, the answer is just like, "Girl, what the f*ck?"

[laughs] Right.

Have you identified any through lines in those questions that stood out to you after doing three seasons of the show?

I think it is all so fascinating. I've always found etiquette to be fascinating because I grew up being extremely introverted. I was terrified of people and really, really terrified of social interactions. "What do I say? How do I say it? What's the appropriate thing to do?"

I love exploring the etiquette of Grindr on this show. How can someone — as Alyssa Edwards would say, "clear, concise, and consistent" — navigate their digital interactions? The digital social sphere is very different, obviously, from the physical one.

So I love talking to people and seeing what they think is appropriate. And also, what do they think is inappropriate? What's the best case scenario? What's the worst case scenario? Sometimes we have wildly differing opinions, and that's really fascinating to me. It's also great to get a message from someone who's just totally clueless.

Oh my god, yes.

Where it's like, "Uh, you sound like a sociopath," or something.

There have been some questions that we're all just like… "Hold up. Wait. What?"

Yeah… One thing that I'm trying to negotiate with myself on Grindr is to just block. Just block, baby, block! Block and roll. You know what I mean? [laughs] It's nothing personal. Just block!

I was talking with Trixie the other day about social media, and I think this applies to Grindr as well: You throw your penny in the well, and you look away. If anybody… Or, no, wait, that's not a good thing. Maybe you cast your thingy in the thing, and… Ugh, I'm trying to think of a good metaphor.

[laughing too hard to help]

Oh, I know one! [laughs] You throw spaghetti, and if it hits the wall, great! But don't just stand there all day looking at the wall. You can't take it personally.

I definitely apply that to social media. Post and go. Moving on.

Exactly.

Actual feedback, good or bad, is great. Randomly arguing with strangers, not so much.

And you never know what's going on with people behind the screens. They could be a catfish. They could've just come from their grandma's funeral. They could be in a polyamorous Amish community. Who knows?! You never really know, so you can't take it all so personally.

You've been open on social media about things that you've been through, but most people aren't that way. I've been thinking a lot about this idea of how we "present" on social media. This year alone — and it's only March — we've lost The Vivienne [season 1 winner of RuPaul's Drag Race UK]. We've lost Tim Kruger and Roman Mercury, two adult film stars who were only in their forties. All very unexpected losses. But every time I scroll through these feeds, I see people still refusing to break that fourth wall. What do you think about that?

Social media is just really… I'm 42, so I remember coming of age and having to contend with constructing an identity for myself in the real world. I can't imagine the reality of people who are half my age having to 1) Try to figure out how to be a person in the real world; and 2) Construct their avatar or social media identity.

And I think there's a perception that that online identity is just as important, if not more important, than their physical one. I'm so happy I didn't have to do that. That's one of the dangers with social media, one of the things to look out for. Grindr, even, it's just a tool. It's a great tool, but it's not the solution. You know what I mean?

Whether it's Grindr or social media, it's a great thing to use and connect with people. But, like anything else, you can fall into using it obsessively. Some people are just scrolling, scrolling, scrolling…

Doom scrolling.

Exactly. A person can go on Grindr and get so many little jolts of dopamine from all the messages and interactions, or whatever the fuck people say. It's important, with any kind of social media, to use it as a tool, not as a magic wand.

Right. Grindr, and other apps, are great platforms for exploration, but they don't have to always be the final destination.

Let me just also add: Personally, I've heard many horror stories, and awkward stories, from the apps. I don't know why, but I don't really have any. Perhaps because of the age? I think I'm able to just use it and put it down. It's there when I need it or want it, but it's not an all-consuming thing.

Something that I'm fascinated about when talking to people, and with guests on the show, is things like: What are your rules and limits? If you have an open relationship, say… If you and your boyfriend are on the couch, is it okay to look through Grindr? Things like that, you know what I mean? I love discussing the sort of intricacies of how people negotiate using Grindr within a relationship or a polyamorous dynamic. It's fascinating.

I find it all fascinating, too. This reminds me of moments on the show like Orville Peck joking that he "would risk it all" for Brad Pitt. More recently, Gus Kenworthy talked about different kinds of sexual dynamics and how he approaches them. You have a lot of interesting conversations in the series. I wish there wasn't so much shame in our community that leads people to think that those conversations are silly and not meaningful. Do you have a favorite part about the process of interviewing someone, or a favorite guest that ended up really surprising you?

Oh, Lisa Rinna, hands down. There's not even a contest. The irony is that my favorite guest on a Grindr podcast is a woman who's been married to a man for 30 years and has never been on a dating website. [laughs] But I mean, she's such a prominent figure in the pantheon of gay icons. I mean, she was the best.

Joel Kim Booster is someone who I've gotten to work with a bunch of times. That man is so hot, and so nice, and I love talking to him. I just love when I get along with gay people, because sometimes we don't even like each other, you know?

Yeah. I've been screaming from the rooftops that we all need to stop doing that. We can have fun and throw shade. But disliking each other for no actual reason — or usually for a very stupid reason — just never made sense to me.

We've got to leave behind that kind of "mean girl snobbishness." It's just, like, really corny. It's really corny.

So corny.

I'd rather risk being cringe than being an asshole.

Queer people would conquer the world if we could get along like straight men do.

Oh, I know. We would. It's such a strange thing. Trixie and I talk about this all the time. Perhaps it's due to some kind of internalized homophobia, but gay people really don't love seeing other gay people succeed. Unless they're in drag, and therefore not competition in the sexual realm. Then they can be desexualized like just a "diva" or whatever. Or when gay people aren't sexualized at all, like a gay man who isn't seen as "competition," let's say.

But everybody else [who is seen as "competition"], they can't. And if someone is an attractive, funny, personable gay guy, everyone's immediately like, "I don't like that bitch."

You've always been open about your past, like your stories about Craigslist hookups. I remember how people would react in shock, clutching their pearls, gobsmacked. Cut to 2025, and it feels like the world just flipped the script on you. I'm always fascinated to hear you talk about gay people being obsessed with getting pleasure from very extreme and often dangerous situations. It's also kind of hilarious that you're suddenly "vanilla" to folks who, not long ago, were shook by your Craigslist stories. Generally, there's a sense that just having sex, or just kissing each other, isn't enough to a lot of people anymore. It's like we're in a maximalist sex era. You're a very sex-positive person who isn't into shaming anyone or being the kink police, but there's been a wild cultural shift in the last 10 years. What's your take on this progression?

Girl, I feel like a sexual anthropologist, like I'm on another planet, like I'm Amanda Huggenkiss ["A man to hug and kiss" pun; a reference on The Simpsons]. I'm just like… When I hear about the sex parties and the cum-dumps, and the frequency, and these wild, uninhibited scenarios where there are a lot of bodies and a lot of substances… I find it fascinating and foreign. And, I mean, hopefully it's safe, whatever that means. But yeah, gay people are wild. Gay people are interesting.

Yeah, we can be wild creatures. But this applies to a lot of other folks, too.

Oh yeah, it's not just gay. One surprising thing that I have learned is that Grindr is used by people who are not identifying as gay. I think I prefer the "men who have sex with men" kind of term, because it's just a little bit more accurate. But either way, listen: if you want to suck a dick, you've got to get on Grindr.

Volunteers will be found. Katniss Everdeen.

Oh yeah!

Well, Katya, thank you for taking the time to speak with us. I hope this was more enjoyable than your viewing experience of Emilia Pérez.

Listen... [laughs].

All episodes of Who's the A**hole? with Katya can be watched on Grindr's official YouTube channel — and keep up with Katya by following @katya_zamo on Instagram.